First of all, though I will be happy to do so...I have not accused you of judgment hate-crimes. In fact, I don't believe I've said anything at all about your judgment...far as I know you haven't made a falsifiable statement until this last post.
Secondly, you get no points for accusing me of trying to have it both ways...a) see above, b)the whole opening is obviously flippant...when did you ever accuse me of hating Muse?, c)even if taken at face value saying we have no problem with pretentious music is not the same as saying we have to make allowances for the pretentious people that listen to it.
Third, what I've been trying to do is establish a few philosophical points that we might be able to base some questions around.
I haven't crawled your *** for any of your opinions about rocknroll.
An imperfect example of what I've been trying to get at...A offers up a red box, a simple red box...then B offers up a red box with white polka-dots.
B may say..."I didn't like the red box."
or..."I thought the red box was ok but boring as it was."
What B may not say is that the red box "sucked because it was just a red box" or that he has "improved the Red Box".
B has done no such thing. He's created a polka-dotted box.
I'm not accusing you of any of these things...just trying to establish the point I've been trying to make.
Four..what you call boring and predictable others call a GROOVE. It's great for dancing and...other vigorous rhythmic activities. A couple of early Sunday mornings at The Subway could have straightened you out, but sadly it's been closed...you're just doomed.
Five, Cut. Three musicians just banging away in the same room? There's a statement we can examine...Wrong. Listen again. Mike Watt and George Hurley are connected at the hip...the base line runs up CRACK...runs back down CRACK
D Boon singing rides the rhythm while playing compact blues leads then dipping back into the rhythm...not unlike...
What am I missing? Hollow sounding...all I have to say to that is this...
I patiently await your abusive response. :)
P.S. Adam says we may be coming off as nasty towards one another...I can assure you that, while we do actually disagree on these things, it's all done with tongue in cheek. Y'all are free to jump in any time without fear of a gettin an earful. The only really mean-spirited poster around here is The Sister...and she only directs her bile at me.
So far this month, I sanded my fingernail off, the car is now exploding on me, and the boy is teething, on top of a number of other things, and I'm not getting a lot out of this mobius band of semantics, So as you adressed me I'll reply, but shall limit my involvement hence force:
ReplyDelete1) Ok there was an implication I was making judgements I wasnt't allowed too- 'too cool to school etc', this was a joke on that.
2)I'm not going back through all them comments and conversations, so whatever, but I don't agree.
3)Red boxes are awesome, but orange boxes are lame, because orange is lame, adn just being an orange box is lame. Deal with it. I'm not making correctly worded legal statements with disclaimers for every opinion. If you don't like red boxes, surely saying 'it sucked because it was just a red box', well its all in there. Any statement of this nature is naturally an opinion. We are sort of treading around Kant here, but I ain't got the time or inclination.
I know you are trying to establish, honest I am not just being beligerent. But seeking this... neutral? correct? I don't know what word to use as they have implications. But anyway this terminology and attitude to adopt to critique objectively, well I don't like it, it seems pointless and unnesessary, I wrongly assumed you have thought this too to be honest. I just want an opinion.
4)Can I have some cream with that slice of patronising? I can stick on 'natural selection' or 'mystery song', and get into the groove just fine thanks, but each to their own. I don't feel that with SOME of the music you have linked.
point 5 you paraphrased. Tight: Yes, (I even added proficient) but nothing tied 'IT' together (not them)- the song, not their playing of it, the nature of the music/song, was scatty and I didn't enjoy it. Even if its tight and profficient, it sounds too disjointed... my cousin is big on free form jazz, and I feel this about that too, despite him and his buddies being some of the best musicians on the planet. Important difference.
Buddy Holly isn't hollow, the sound is sparse sure, but the song is a whole entity of its own, with a distinct heart and flow, a core, I don't know what words to use?
Alright then I'll leave you alone. :)
ReplyDeleteI'm just going to wade in here a propo of a few beers, having not read, measured and weighed the arguments - the pros and cons, so-to-speak - but just having seen mention of the band “The Muse”, and bless their popular progressive rock pretensions; so I'd like to stick my oar in and paddle my point view. For the record, your honour, Muse are the poor man's Radiohead. I don't dispute the fact that they have some merit; they can play their own instruments; write their own songs; even hold a tune, etc., hell, they probably dress themselves. But the fact remains, nobody is going is going to miss them, rail against their “premature” demise a generation, or less, from now. In some future bar, folks aren't going to be scouring the jukebox play-list, while loudly exclaiming they, “were the Dylan of their day”. I know this, because I have seen the future. And if you're all wondering, Bieber lives, but it's a pitiful, harrowing, existence.
ReplyDeleteAdam, you need need to start thinking outside the box. Colour is a secondary quality, as Locke explained in his "Essay concerning Human Understanding". Kant and won't will not do.
ReplyDeleteGood to see you here my man...hopefully you'll make it a habit.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair to our Adam...I think the boxes were an exasperating tipping point. :) After days of spirited sparring he was...over it.
I'm also the one that dragged Muse into it...see the video. They just seemed like a good starting point...given some of their extravagant tendencies (see video) I'm pretty sure Adam like's 'em, but I don't know to what extent.
You have made an objective observation though...one that could be examined in detail by someone who knows a little more about Muse than I do.
Don't be a stranger.
The morning after. The bitter recriminations. The heart-rendered oaths not to drink again, least not till gone past noon. And I respect my body: I only water it with real ale; not that sugary urine you have to chill just to numb the taste - why I never understood white wine drinkers: you have to virtually freeze that stuff and dilute it with soda to get rid of the sickly after-taste. If you're hot and sticky, have a lemonade to cool down, or a nice iced-tea, but don't drink that chemical shit you see in sports-sponsoring advertising. “When I'm out there, giving it my all on the field, fine-tuned to peak physical fitness, I look forward to a post-match [insert brand name] or two, or may be even three. But I'm a responsible drinker and three's my limit.” No, no you don't, sure, you may drink champagne and snort coke of a hookers' bumpier parts, but you ain't drinking [insert brand name]. That's for sure.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, back to The Muse, and their .. hold on … weak pun coming … far from amusing guitar diddling. Now I don't recall the name of the lead singer and chief diddler, but I'd recognise him to the extent that, if I saw him in the street, I'd be able to cross the road in time, having said that, I do give him credit for dating Kate Hudson. A fine looking lady. However, the thing is about The Muse, and I'll leave it at this, is that their music belongs to aspiring teenage guitar noodlers; they like popular music, but also crave the stage-adulation of an extended wah-wah solo - which is fine, they just don't get, say, Jimi Hendix's Woodstock rendition of the Star Spangled Banner and the political context of the Vietnam war upon which is was a comment. That's fine, I'm not one to beat up on the kids. Look through my music collection and there'll be the odd instance of retrospective taste failure. But you live, you learn and grow out of it. I may even have a Bon Jovi magnetised tape somewhere. No one's perfect. The point is, after crossing the threshold of adulthood, these are silly youthful indulgences that ought to get left behind; at least past the age of twenty-one, you really shouldn't be listening to bands like The Muse, not even as an ironic statement.
I believe you are referring to Gatorade...invented at the University of Florida for the beloved Gator football team.
ReplyDeleteBig mistake. Now I'm liable to be driven to hours of distraction watching then posting Gator football clips. I've already got youtube opened up in another window...there's the sweet sounds of Vern Lunquist's voice and the now comfortable and familiar tones of Gary Danielson...man do I miss Reggie Nelson...
Arghhhhh....see what you've done?
Back to the matter at hand. One, me and Adam have a running argument/conversation about music. Mainly he just hates whatever I post from NWA to Hank Williams Jr.
This particular round started with me posting some Minutemen clips...one of the all time greats. He hates 'em.
I brought Muse to demonstrate my willingness to look past what I see as some of the worst tendencies of popular music...in other words I'm not a fan.
But and Two, turning the question back on you and me. Could we look past the obvious issues and, even if we never wanted to hear it, judge that they had indeed written a good song.
Bon Jovi's a good example...I can't stand 'em, but I have to admit that they had their moment with Dead or Alive. Now to be sure I don't want to hear the song...I don't like it, but it is a good song. That kinda thing.
Now for some Gator clips to help you sober up.
NWA. I remember someone playing their records to me. They were angry, aggressive, politically savvy, but above all, hilarious. And I say that respectfully. Some people got offended and confused with their lyrically muscular vigour in the alleged promotion of wanton violence. Tipper Gore? Not so. They spoke for street-wise reality and called their shots honestly, without calling for aggressors - badged oppressors - to be be shot (except as part of the empowering power of fantasy). Okay, they'd like to rough them up a bit. Well sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.Also they're the natural progression of blues to ragtime to jazz to rap.
ReplyDeleteFunny thing is...back then Martin Scorsese or Francis Coppola could get away with it without causing a peep.
ReplyDelete...Tipper Gore just ended up making Luther Campbell rich enough to bankroll the University of Miami football team for half a decade.
Under all that was ridiculous beats and great, if often reprehensible, story telling...and the some crude jokes....the beats...man.